Fate…what is fate?
Do we have any control over our own destiny? Or is our destiny pre-destined?
For example:
Lets say that someone was going out…and what that person doesn’t know is that there will be a chance of him getting hit by a car that day and he would die. But at the very last moment before he leaves the house, the phone rings…now...he has a choice…
He can either ignore it and leave, so that he doesn’t miss his appointment…but he wouldn’t make it anyway because he would be hit by a car…
Or he can pick up the phone…be late for his appointment…but miss the car that was supposed to hit him…
In both scenarios, the end result would be his destiny...
BUT…the choice of whether to pick the phone up or ignore it…who controls that? The individual? Or a higher power from above? Can we choose our own fate?
I wonder…
23 comments:
A very wise and religious man where sitting once near a wall and suddenly a guy came and told him that this wall is about to fall so watch out so the man moved away from the wall then some people who knew that wise man told him why did u move r u afraid of death and don't u always say that if it is God's will for a person to die on a specific moments then no one can change it so when u moved away that means that u don't believe in God. The wise man answered, "I escaped from what was meant to be to what will be meant to be" I don't know if I have translated it right it is in Arabic "هربت من قضاء الله الى قدره".
In my opinion no one can escape death if it is God's will for a person to die then both neither him nor anyone in the world can prevent that and if it is not meant to be then no one can change it.
very interesting...did that wise man happen to be Imam Ali?
I need u to explain to me the difference between katha2 and kadar...whats katha2 and whats kadar?
I understand that EVERYTHING is Gods will...but do we have a choice WITH His will?
do we just have ONE destiny? or a number of different destinies, in which we make the choice of which one we will end up with?
He is Imam Ali indeed…
About Katha2 and Kaddar well as I see it humans have a choice in their lives but it cannot go against the will of God so in other words we may escape Katha2 by our choice but with God’s guidance (the most suitable word is "توفيق من الله" ) so if it is not God’s will for a person to remain alive then he won’t no matter how much he tried to prevent or postpone his death and if it is God’s will for that person to stay alive even if he is in the middle of a certain death situation then God will provide him with all the means for him to survive.
So in my opinion a person may have more than one destiny and the choice will be his to make depending on his actions at that moment and before. I remember a story about a man that had an old uncle and that man was good with his uncle taking good care of him and so and when his time has come (the man I mean) and when the angel of death came for him God ordered the Angel of death to postpone that man’s death for the sake of his uncle and so his time came more than once and every time God orders the angel of death to postpone that man’s death. (I don’t remember where or when I heard this story so I’m sorry if it seemed inconvenient)
I’m sorry for writing such a long comment and as a final word I say there is no need for us to worry about our destiny or our time of death and we must do as Imam Ali said “ Do for your mortal life as if u r living for ever and do for your afterlife as if u r dying tomorrow” (اعمل لدنياك كأنك تعيش ابدا و اعمل لآخرتك كأنك تموت غدا)
P.S. I surely hope that u do read Arabic and if not then I’m sorry for the bizarre phrases that I’ve written in my comments.
Kyubai
I think i agree with u 100%...it makes sense...thank u.
U dont have to apologise for long comments...u should see the ones that i leave on Caesar's posts...ESSAYS...not comments...lol
And..erm...how do i say this..? lol
ermmm...well the thing is...(and im not trying to bully u here...lol)
BUT...
OF COURSE I READ ARABIC!!!! how else would i have asked u about katha2 and kaddar if i couldnt read arabic since u wrote that sentence in arabic? lol...
but hey...u KNEW that really...right kyubai? :p hehe
I think that this post is very wise, it has a subject that if opened will lead to infinite thoughts, I really admired what kyubai said, and I think that it's more than enough, I just wanted to add something, If we think about our choices of avoiding or changing our destiny all the time, we won't live,
I believe that we will not pick up the phone, nor catch the appointment, and If we thought someway that being in a position where answering the phone would spare us death and not doing it would mean definite death, if we thought that we have a choice even though we don't know anything about the car accident, this means that we have powers in our minds that can tell us about the future even if we don’t feel them, and this is against what we believe in
"و لا يعلم الغيب الا الله "
so I believe that we never have a choice in what comes to death, but I do believe that we have a choice in planning for it and working on the present with the best effort we can, and may god do the rest for us ...
Best Regards
ok ok...death is something that we do not control or have a choice in...i realise that.
But what im confused about is destiny and fate! i think that i gave the wrong example and i should have used something else rather than death.
let me try again...
As muslims, we believe that every single step in a persons life is written...so anything that happens during ones lifetime is a destiny that has been written and is known by Allah (swt).
Lets say that in my destiny...it is written that at one point in my life, i will make the wrong choice which will lead me onto the wrong path. what im interested to know is:
Can i NOT make that choice? Do i have the choice of NOT making that choice that will lead to the wrong path? if so...will i not be changing my destiny?
erm..sorry if im confusing any1...i think i better shush..
Well, if you have faith in what's written then really we have no choice in whatever we do in this life since it has already been decided upon. If you choose to change your path then that too was already your destiny.
So, those who are criminals had no choice in being so and they will be prosecuted for something they didn't make the decision to do as God has chosen it for them.
Hmm I think what u’ve said is related to the dilemma of "الانسان مسير ام مخير" and there r many verses in the holy Qura’an supporting both points so I’ll say the same phrase I’ve said in my first comment but with an update "الانسان مخير بتوفيق من الله" so what I mean is that u you may choose your own path in life but your success in taking that path is between the hands of God.
Let me give an example suppose that u r hunting for a job and u think about two companies to apply for company A and company B and u r confused which one is better where each has its certain advantages and disadvantages so u finally decided to go join company A (cause u like the sound of it) and after u decide that (which is totally your decision) and on your way to deliver your application for the company u meet on of your oldest friends and he told u that he works for company B and that the company about to merge with a world known company and that it is better for u to apply for company B now and that he’ll give u a recommendation (and that my friend is an act of God) so u still can join company A but I don’t believe that will be wise of u since God has gives u a sign (because of a prayer u’ve done or may be an act of benevolence u did few days ago) so your actions will speak for u and it is not like that u want to do something and a strange force will oblige u to do otherwise.
Sorry Again for the long comment but I guess that it has been a while since I’ve been moved by a post this much so thank u and may God bless us all…
Dreamer...
Thank u for ur comment.
'So, those who are criminals had no choice in being so and they will be prosecuted for something they didn't make the decision to do as God has chosen it for them'
Not really...let me explain y...
From what i know, when God decided to creat humanity, he first created our spirits/souls and we existed in a world different to this one (3alam ilthar...i dont know if uv heard of it). There, we were given choices...path A, B, C, D, etc. We had the free will to make any choice we wanted and we chose. He then created our bodies and placed us in this world, where we are merely carrying out the choices that we made. So, our destiny was written after we made those initial choices.
What i was wondering about, is whether we are able to change those initial choices that we made.
Kyubai has provided a very interesting answer...
Thank u very much Kyubai and i really enjoy reading ur comments so pls dont apologise for their length...the longer, the better :)
very intriguing (and classic) question:
KyuBei handled this very effectively as always :D
try not to worry about death: think of it as a break from life :D
btw i'd recommend watching "The Crow", only the first part, mind you, fantastic film :) which fit your writings well i presume
take care Kitten.
btw you ALWAYS have a choice, even the choice to end one's life, is one's own.
if one didn't kill oneself, it will also happen, but by another hand.
that's my take :)
sorry for triple posting:
linguistically speaking, i interpret:
Qadar as something which is pre-determined and is scheduled to happen ON A FIXED DATE wayyy before it does, also one doesn't have a hand in preventing it or making it happen (i.e. death)
while
Qatha'a is something which is BOUND TO HAPPEN eventually, one can take measures against it (i.e. if i am genetically susceptible to have cancer, which can kill me, i CAN avoid it as much as possible by not putting carcinogens into my body)
but some might say that's just splitting hairs.
your choice here :)
Anarki...
thank u for ur triple comments! lol
1)Im not worried about death...im worried about my choices.
2)Suicide is completely stupid and thats another subject altogether.
3)Thank u for ur clarification...its a good explaination.
u take care too anarki :)
Kitten, sometimes suicide is the only answer and there is no other choice. Its not stupid, its a way out.
L.D
L.D
Thanks for sharing ur opinion.
Suicide is NOT the answer and there is always another choice. To end ones life is foolish. Who gives u the right? Let God claim it when its ur time...
"Kitten, sometimes suicide is the only answer and there is no other choice. Its not stupid, its a way out."
riiiiight. it IS a way out: for those who lack the guts to live in the REAL WORLD. go back to your dreams.
if you so badly want to kill yourself, go join the army. at least you'll get a medal for it.
Hmm, I kinna get the idea of kitten, like may be If I crossed the street first and then walked 10 meters to the shop I would bump into someone on that side and he would offer me a great job that will take me into a series of positions changing my life forever, and if I walk the 10 meters then cross the street I won't notice the guy and my life goes in another direction, my be we have a choice, but in this case it's not how much we learn or how wise we are, isn't that right? I mean what possibly can make a person swing between crossing then walking or walking then crossing? If we answer that question may be we will know how to control our choices.
And Also, It came up to my mind that may be there's a whole different direction for the situation, my be if I walked on my side the person would see me and shout and call me and things go where I get the job!, and If we think about it, there is an infinite number of routes for our life depending on that (Cross/walk) or (walk/cross), and after all, may be it doesn't make a difference!!!, I think I didn't go anywhere but these are my pure ideas!.!
Thank you.
By the way, Is he really trying to say that suicide is an issue?! lol, that's it bye!
M.H.Z thank u for sharing ur ideas.
'I mean what possibly can make a person swing between crossing then walking or walking then crossing?'
Hmmm...an impulse? an instinct? an intuition? A sixth sense that we r not aware of?
Or is it just FATE?
Does fate control us, or do we control fate?
There is no easy answer...
sigh. there is: there IS!
we are here on earth to take control of our lives: God doesn't need us, God doesn't control us. Fate doesn't need us, Fate doesn't control us.
no fate but what we make.
we have no control of how/when/where we were born, or how/when/where we will die, basically everything in between is up to US :)
or more eloquently put:
"If you work hard every day to train for a sport, you will succeed and win. It is not the work of God or fate that you have succeeded; it is YOU who have made this success for yourself. Had you not trained, you would not have this success. No fate but what we make. You made yourself a better athlete, so you excelled. You made your own fate."
I'm quite fine, thank you. The point of the post was to stress that I can no longer be controlled by situational emotions or temptation to react. Thank you, though and I appreciate the concern. ^_^
Interesting topic
Fate…
Do we control it, does it control us ?
Do we have any free will or do we have everything preordained.
Freewill is the only option.
If it is ordained then why is there supposedly heaven and hell for those who are deserving of either place ? If we are fated to be evil then (by Christo-judeo-lsamic religions) nothing we do would matter before god. God has already decided for us where we are going to spend eternity. This would also nullify anything god had to teach us by way of morality or religious teachings. Why would there be commandments to follow or ignore if you cant chose for yourself between them ? Why would there be moral choices to make if you cant choose between them ?
When we die is pretty much random. If it isn't random then why do twins die at separate times ? They have the same genetics. Yet they almost never die together. They may both have heart problems but one dies of a heart attack at 50 and another lives to be 95. Dying in their sleep of nothing more than old age.
In China many centuries ago were two monks. They were travelling between monasteries when they came to a river. On their side of the river was an old woman. She couldn’t pass the river as it was too high. The older monk carried her across and on the far side of the river set her down. They younger monk said nothing but was very troubled by this. He was troubled for a few days before he asked the older monk “In our order it isn't permitted to touch women. Yet you picked up that old woman and carried her across the river”. The older monk said “I also put her down on the far side. Why are you still carrying her ?”.
We all have choices. Even if the choice seems wrong, even if our religious leaders tell us it is wrong we have choices to make. Those choices are ours to make and no other. In the story above their religion told them that simply to touch a woman was wrong. Yet the woman wasn’t able to cross the river by herself and could not return to her home. So the old man helped her across. Religion told him it was wrong, morality told him it was right. What would god say about that ? Would god care about the rules of his order, or would god see the effects of his actions and intentions ?
Some things are meant to be, some things are random. You are meant to be the next great composer of our times but does that mean you have to be one ? We can have all the talent in the world for something but that doesn’t mean we have to act on it. My grandfather was a pianist. He could have played in the best symphonies of the world but he didn’t. He chose to work for the government in the agriculture research dept. Same as if you answer the phone and live or don’t answer it and die. The opposite can be true. Answer the phone and die or leave and live. Which one is it ? Who cares! I like the above expression of “ Do for your mortal life as if u r living for ever and do for your afterlife as if u r dying tomorrow” Death finds us all. Sooner or later. Between birth and death we always have choices.
We are sold an image at birth of life as it should be. Yet life never works out this way. We are told that we will find true love, we will do important jobs and we will go to heaven if we are good enough to make the grade. Yet some people never fall in love some people are ditch diggers and some people simply don’t care about the state of their soul. If god has decided in advance what every second of every day is going to be for us then what is the point ? We are on autopilot and responsible for nothing. How could god then stand in judgement of us for anything we did ? After all god decided for us. To judge a person for actions that was predetermined is both arbitrary and evil. Only a wicked god would damn those to hell for something they couldn’t control.
The only choice is we are free to decide.
Heaven and hell is of our own making. God has nothing to do with it. We take the lessons of this life and apply them to what happens after we leave this life. As for choices, there is no sense in making a choice for your entire life before you are born. What is the point of living if you have mapped out everything that happens to you before hand. If you are to be judged on your choices then simply making the choice should be enough to judge you one. Why live an entire life just to prove it ?
Free will is the only answer.
Suicide. Here is a scenario for you. A person has terminal cancer and is in great pain. Or a person has Alzheimer’s and will lose their sense of self. The person in question decided that they will end it before it becomes too painful or they lose too much of who they are. How can this be wrong ? How can god be considered loving to let a person live in agony for months or even years. What advantage can this have to your spiritual self ? To me any god that asks you to live in agony unrelenting isn't worth following. Its not the mark of a loving god or a compassionate god. It’s the mark of one who doesn’t care in the slightest about the sufferings of their followers. Explain to me how suffering can be justified in terms of love and compassion. I never understood that part. Cancer runs in my family, my grandmother died of Alzheimer’s. If I have either disease and in the case of cancer if its terminal I'm not waiting to turn into a walking vegetable or be stuck in some hospital bed before calling it the end. There is nothing immoral about that. Why should I put my family through the horror of a protracted death when death is certain? The best death I could have is one I see coming. That way I will have enough strength left to take one last hike into the forests I love so much. Lay down in a meadow, and fill the last views in this life of gods natural world. After I die let the forest make what use of my body it will. Feed the birds, bugs. Fertilize the earth itself. Wake up in an afterlife or be reborn in a new life. God wont care if I don’t suffer for ages. Where I live there is always a freezing line. There is a glacier behind town and freezing to death isn't a bad way to go. I’ve had stage 3 hypothermia twice in my life you just get numb and confused. No pain involved. The thought of being in a hospital while some nurse wipes my butt for me fills me with horror. The thought of waking up one day and not knowing who I am anymore is worse. Suicide isn't always a bad thing. There are plenty worse ways to die.
Malamute
Thank u once again for sharing ur very interesting views and thoughts.
I agree with u about free-will...
Im not sure about the suicide bit...
U have inspired me to write my next entry...
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